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	<title>Comments on: A renewable energy plan for the UK</title>
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	<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/</link>
	<description>Temporarily Torontonian</description>
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		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-90038</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 18:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-90038</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whenever you suggest that renewables could one day supply a large proportion of our electricity, scores of people jump up to denounce it as a pipedream, a fantasy, a dangerous delusion. They insist that the energy resources don’t exist; that the technologies are inefficient; that they can’t be accommodated on the grid; that the variability of supply will cause constant blackouts.

...

It examines only existing technologies – wind turbines with both fixed and floating foundations, wave machines, tidal range and tidal stream devices – and the contribution they can make by 2050.

It accepts the usual constraints on offshore renewables: maximum water depths, the need to avoid dense shipping lanes and other obstacles, the various technical limits. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2010/05/20/out-of-sight-out-of-trouble/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Having applied these constraints, it finds that the practical resource for offshore renewables in the UK is 2,130 terawatt hours per year. This is six times our current electricity demand.&lt;/a&gt;

Were we to use only 29% of the total resource, the UK would become a net electricity exporter. We would be generating energy equivalent to 1bn barrels of oil a year, which roughly corresponds to the average amount of North Sea oil and gas the UK has been producing over the past four decades.

The report estimates that this industry would directly employ 145,000 people and produce annual revenues of £62bn. The construction effort would be roughly similar to building the North Sea oil and gas infrastructure: eminently plausible, in other words, if propelled by strong government policy.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whenever you suggest that renewables could one day supply a large proportion of our electricity, scores of people jump up to denounce it as a pipedream, a fantasy, a dangerous delusion. They insist that the energy resources don’t exist; that the technologies are inefficient; that they can’t be accommodated on the grid; that the variability of supply will cause constant blackouts.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>It examines only existing technologies – wind turbines with both fixed and floating foundations, wave machines, tidal range and tidal stream devices – and the contribution they can make by 2050.</p>
<p>It accepts the usual constraints on offshore renewables: maximum water depths, the need to avoid dense shipping lanes and other obstacles, the various technical limits. <a href="http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2010/05/20/out-of-sight-out-of-trouble/" rel="nofollow">Having applied these constraints, it finds that the practical resource for offshore renewables in the UK is 2,130 terawatt hours per year. This is six times our current electricity demand.</a></p>
<p>Were we to use only 29% of the total resource, the UK would become a net electricity exporter. We would be generating energy equivalent to 1bn barrels of oil a year, which roughly corresponds to the average amount of North Sea oil and gas the UK has been producing over the past four decades.</p>
<p>The report estimates that this industry would directly employ 145,000 people and produce annual revenues of £62bn. The construction effort would be roughly similar to building the North Sea oil and gas infrastructure: eminently plausible, in other words, if propelled by strong government policy.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-80050</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-80050</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13982870&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Solar power and the Sahara desert&lt;/a&gt;
The start of something big?

Jul 8th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Solar electricity may be about to attract real money

A meeting on July 13th might get the ball rolling. Munich Re, the world’s largest reinsurance company, has invited 20 large companies (including Siemens, Germany’s engineering giant; power suppliers RWE and E.ON; and Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest) to join it in forming a consortium called Desertec. If all goes well, this will eventually build a legion of solar power stations in Africa and Arabia, and connect them to Europe.

...

The power stations in question will be “solar thermal”, rather than the better known sort relying on photovoltaic solar cells.

...

If the scheme were implemented in full, it would involve spending €400 billion ($560 billion) at today’s prices, over the next 40 years, building enough solar power stations to satisfy 15% of European demand in 2050—together with most of North Africa’s and Arabia’s—and about 20 trans-Mediterranean HVDC cables which, unlike conventional AC power lines, can transmit power over long distances and through water without significant losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13982870" rel="nofollow">Solar power and the Sahara desert</a><br />
The start of something big?</p>
<p>Jul 8th 2009<br />
From The Economist print edition<br />
Solar electricity may be about to attract real money</p>
<p>A meeting on July 13th might get the ball rolling. Munich Re, the world’s largest reinsurance company, has invited 20 large companies (including Siemens, Germany’s engineering giant; power suppliers RWE and E.ON; and Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest) to join it in forming a consortium called Desertec. If all goes well, this will eventually build a legion of solar power stations in Africa and Arabia, and connect them to Europe.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>The power stations in question will be “solar thermal”, rather than the better known sort relying on photovoltaic solar cells.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>If the scheme were implemented in full, it would involve spending €400 billion ($560 billion) at today’s prices, over the next 40 years, building enough solar power stations to satisfy 15% of European demand in 2050—together with most of North Africa’s and Arabia’s—and about 20 trans-Mediterranean HVDC cables which, unlike conventional AC power lines, can transmit power over long distances and through water without significant losses.</p>
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		<title>By: In Mortal Hands</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79714</link>
		<dc:creator>In Mortal Hands</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79714</guid>
		<description>[...] distributed microgeneration could be the solution.&#8221; Some consideration of scale, such as that provided by David MacKay, is essential here. Small wind turbines on the roofs of houses as not a viable alternative to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] distributed microgeneration could be the solution.&#8221; Some consideration of scale, such as that provided by David MacKay, is essential here. Small wind turbines on the roofs of houses as not a viable alternative to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79618</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79618</guid>
		<description>Here is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c25/page_181.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a better figure on desert solar&lt;/a&gt; than &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79158&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the one linked before&lt;/a&gt;.

Rather than showing one monolithic 600x600km block, it shows 65 &#039;blobs&#039; each with an area of 1500km^2 and 1/3 full of solar power facilities. Each would produce 10 GW of output, and the set of 65 could produce 16 kWh per day for one billion people (Europeans today use about 125 kWh per day, so you would need a lot more efficiency, lower living standards, or more blobs per person).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c25/page_181.shtml" rel="nofollow">a better figure on desert solar</a> than <a href="http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79158" rel="nofollow">the one linked before</a>.</p>
<p>Rather than showing one monolithic 600x600km block, it shows 65 &#8216;blobs&#8217; each with an area of 1500km^2 and 1/3 full of solar power facilities. Each would produce 10 GW of output, and the set of 65 could produce 16 kWh per day for one billion people (Europeans today use about 125 kWh per day, so you would need a lot more efficiency, lower living standards, or more blobs per person).</p>
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		<title>By: R.K.</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79381</link>
		<dc:creator>R.K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79381</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I think you are using the cost figure for solar PV – not concentrating solar.&lt;/em&gt;

True, but I think the caveat about extrapolating from a single facility is the most important thing. Let&#039;s build a few 10km by 10km solar farms, then start estimating how much 600x600km facilities would cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I think you are using the cost figure for solar PV – not concentrating solar.</em></p>
<p>True, but I think the caveat about extrapolating from a single facility is the most important thing. Let&#8217;s build a few 10km by 10km solar farms, then start estimating how much 600x600km facilities would cost.</p>
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		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79329</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79329</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5316&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Is the 2000 Watt Society Sustainable in Switzerland?&lt;/a&gt;

Posted by Francois Cellier on April 25, 2009

Recently a debate has arisen here at ETH Zurich centering on the question whether the envisaged &quot;2000 Watt Society&quot; is inevitable. Why shouldn&#039;t we be allowed to use more energy? Wouldn&#039;t it be more important to limit greenhouse gas emissions? A report about the new energy strategy of ETH Zurich was published in the Oil Drum in May 2008.

In this presentation, we discuss whether the 2000 Watt Society is at all sustainable, and if so, what it will take to keep energy supply at that level after the end of ample and cheap fossil fuels. What are the implications of energy deprivation to our society? Can we stave off famine? How can we maximize our chances of getting through the emerging world-wide crisis relatively unscathed? What are the pitfalls in designing and implementing a strategy that helps us achieve these goals? How much time have we got left?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5316" rel="nofollow">Is the 2000 Watt Society Sustainable in Switzerland?</a></p>
<p>Posted by Francois Cellier on April 25, 2009</p>
<p>Recently a debate has arisen here at ETH Zurich centering on the question whether the envisaged &#8220;2000 Watt Society&#8221; is inevitable. Why shouldn&#8217;t we be allowed to use more energy? Wouldn&#8217;t it be more important to limit greenhouse gas emissions? A report about the new energy strategy of ETH Zurich was published in the Oil Drum in May 2008.</p>
<p>In this presentation, we discuss whether the 2000 Watt Society is at all sustainable, and if so, what it will take to keep energy supply at that level after the end of ample and cheap fossil fuels. What are the implications of energy deprivation to our society? Can we stave off famine? How can we maximize our chances of getting through the emerging world-wide crisis relatively unscathed? What are the pitfalls in designing and implementing a strategy that helps us achieve these goals? How much time have we got left?</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79256</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79256</guid>
		<description>&quot;you’d need less overall energy to maintain current levels of transport, if transport were electric.&quot;

In cities that already have overhead wires for trolley buses, why not trolley taxis? Although that might force cabbies to drive in an un-erratic fashion, ruining the entire purpose of taxis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you’d need less overall energy to maintain current levels of transport, if transport were electric.&#8221;</p>
<p>In cities that already have overhead wires for trolley buses, why not trolley taxis? Although that might force cabbies to drive in an un-erratic fashion, ruining the entire purpose of taxis.</p>
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		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79244</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79244</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/07/algae-for-biofuels/#comment-77959&quot; title=&quot;Algae for biofuels?&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This thread&lt;/a&gt; also considers the logistics of oil replacement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/07/algae-for-biofuels/#comment-77959" title="Algae for biofuels?" rel="nofollow">This thread</a> also considers the logistics of oil replacement.</p>
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		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79243</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79243</guid>
		<description>There is no doubt that we could have similar lifestyles while using significantly less energy.

That being said, it does seem likely that moving to an economy based entirely on renewable energy will cost trillions, and involve facilities the size of medium-sized countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no doubt that we could have similar lifestyles while using significantly less energy.</p>
<p>That being said, it does seem likely that moving to an economy based entirely on renewable energy will cost trillions, and involve facilities the size of medium-sized countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79240</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79240</guid>
		<description>I just mean that from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-fuel-oil-equivalent-barrels-us-conversion.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this website&lt;/a&gt; a barrel of oil is good for about 6.4 gigajoules of energy or 1800kw/h. But with gas cars being only maybe 20%-25% efficient (a guess), and say an electric vehicle being maybe 70% efficient (another guess) you&#039;d need less overall energy to maintain current levels of transport, if transport were electric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just mean that from <a href="http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-fuel-oil-equivalent-barrels-us-conversion.html" rel="nofollow">this website</a> a barrel of oil is good for about 6.4 gigajoules of energy or 1800kw/h. But with gas cars being only maybe 20%-25% efficient (a guess), and say an electric vehicle being maybe 70% efficient (another guess) you&#8217;d need less overall energy to maintain current levels of transport, if transport were electric.</p>
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		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79232</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79232</guid>
		<description>The solar farms MacKay describes would produce 125 kWh/d per person. That is about equal to current European usage (including transport fuels), but half of current usage in North America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solar farms MacKay describes would produce 125 kWh/d per person. That is about equal to current European usage (including transport fuels), but half of current usage in North America.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/16/a-renewable-energy-plan-for-the-uk/#comment-79231</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=5725#comment-79231</guid>
		<description>If all of our energy was electric, we&#039;d need less of it due to the relative efficiencies of electric motors versus combustion engines. I would think the difference would be quite significant, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If all of our energy was electric, we&#8217;d need less of it due to the relative efficiencies of electric motors versus combustion engines. I would think the difference would be quite significant, too.</p>
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