Comments on: Who is vulnerable to climate change? http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/ Temporarily Torontonian Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:01:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Right about obstacles, wrong about consequences http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-81309 Right about obstacles, wrong about consequences Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:39:32 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-81309 [...] In practical terms, it is challenging to converse with people who have this pair of outlooks. Their cynicism about politics is largely justified, and they are right to see climate change as a problem of unprecedented complexity and difficulty. Trying to make them aware of just how dangerous climate change could be is challenging, because it is easy to come off sounding like you are exaggerating things. People just aren’t psychologically prepared to accept what 5°C of warming could plausible do to human civilization, even within what are now rich states. [...] [...] In practical terms, it is challenging to converse with people who have this pair of outlooks. Their cynicism about politics is largely justified, and they are right to see climate change as a problem of unprecedented complexity and difficulty. Trying to make them aware of just how dangerous climate change could be is challenging, because it is easy to come off sounding like you are exaggerating things. People just aren’t psychologically prepared to accept what 5°C of warming could plausible do to human civilization, even within what are now rich states. [...]

]]> By: oleh http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-80060 oleh Tue, 21 Jul 2009 06:41:53 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-80060 Regarding my entry above, I copied the following from the Oxfam Canada website which sets out the preamble for and the four specific points in the petition WOMEN LIVING IN POVERTY ARE THE LEAST RESPONSIBLE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE YET THE MOST BURDENED BY ITS IMPACT. Together, we must demand that our governments and decision-makers commit to real action to stop harming, and start helping at the UN negotiations in Copenhagen this December 2009. I call on Canada to promote a fair and just global deal that: • Significantly reduces greenhouse gas emissions • Provides funding to help women living in poverty adapt to climate change • Supports women's leadership in climate action • Enables women to utilize green technology It does seem to me that the mixing of climate change and women's issues reflects a gender bias on an issue that will effect us all. Hence it seems unnecessarily divisive on gender lines Regarding my entry above, I copied the following from the Oxfam Canada website which sets out the preamble for and the four specific points in the petition

WOMEN LIVING IN POVERTY ARE THE LEAST RESPONSIBLE
FOR CLIMATE CHANGE YET THE MOST BURDENED BY ITS IMPACT.
Together, we must demand that our governments and decision-makers commit to real action
to stop harming, and start helping at the UN negotiations in Copenhagen this December 2009.
I call on Canada to promote a fair and just global deal that:
• Significantly reduces greenhouse gas emissions
• Provides funding to help women living in poverty adapt to climate change
• Supports women’s leadership in climate action
• Enables women to utilize green technology

It does seem to me that the mixing of climate change and women’s issues reflects a gender bias on an issue that will effect us all. Hence it seems unnecessarily divisive on gender lines

]]> By: oleh http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-80059 oleh Tue, 21 Jul 2009 06:33:57 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-80059 Re who is vulnerable to climate change, I was invited to sign a petition regarding climate change being circulated by Oxfam Canada at yesterday's Vancouver Folk Festival. The petition referred to 4 single sentence points. Three of them singled out women as either being more affected or needing to be more involved in climate change issues. I signed the petition as I felt in general support of action on climate change. However, I felt confused by the repeated reference to women in an issue such as climate change which I see as gender neutral. Re who is vulnerable to climate change, I was invited to sign a petition regarding climate change being circulated by Oxfam Canada at yesterday’s Vancouver Folk Festival. The petition referred to 4 single sentence points. Three of them singled out women as either being more affected or needing to be more involved in climate change issues. I signed the petition as I felt in general support of action on climate change. However, I felt confused by the repeated reference to women in an issue such as climate change which I see as gender neutral.

]]> By: . http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79908 . Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:17:00 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79908 Tuesday, July 14, 2009 <a href="http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=96797" rel="nofollow">Climate change may cause civilisation to collapse</a> Ani, Washington The biggest single report to look at the future of the planet has said that due to climate change, "billions of people will be condemned to poverty and much of civilisation will collapse". The stark warning from the report has been obtained by The Independent, ahead of its official publication next month. The impact of the global recession is a key theme in the report, with researchers warning that global clean energy, food availability, poverty and the growth of democracy around the world are at "risk of getting worse due to the recession". "Too many greedy and deceitful decisions led to a world recession and demonstrated the international interdependence of economics and ethics," the report added. Although the future has been looking better for most of the world over the past 20 years, the global recession has lowered the State of the Future Index for the next 10 years. Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Climate change may cause civilisation to collapse
Ani, Washington

The biggest single report to look at the future of the planet has said that due to climate change, “billions of people will be condemned to poverty and much of civilisation will collapse”.

The stark warning from the report has been obtained by The Independent, ahead of its official publication next month.

The impact of the global recession is a key theme in the report, with researchers warning that global clean energy, food availability, poverty and the growth of democracy around the world are at “risk of getting worse due to the recession”.

“Too many greedy and deceitful decisions led to a world recession and demonstrated the international interdependence of economics and ethics,” the report added.

Although the future has been looking better for most of the world over the past 20 years, the global recession has lowered the State of the Future Index for the next 10 years.

]]> By: . http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79870 . Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:49:23 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79870 <a href="http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/664406" rel="nofollow">Real victims of climate change: the world's poor</a> Jul 11, 2009 04:30 AM Peter Gorrie "My husband used to be a rice farmer (until sea water flooded his land and others took it over for shrimp farming.) He had to go to the forest to collect honey. "One afternoon three years ago he found a beehive. He went to climb the tree, but then he was caught by a tiger and killed. He was 30 years old." Fahima Begum, a 28-year-old mother of two young children in Bangladesh, tells the story. It's in a report on climate change impacts released this week by Oxfam International. She continues: "There are no fish in the river, no jobs in the village. Now we are suffering a lot, especially due to the lack of clean water. (The sea water also ruined that resource.) We collected water from (a pond) more than a kilometre away... My children are suffering from diarrhea. On one hand they starve, and the water makes it worse. "Maybe I could leave... But I don't know where I would go, because I haven't even crossed the river. I don't know how to go, because I don't know where to go." Real victims of climate change: the world’s poor

Jul 11, 2009 04:30 AM

Peter Gorrie

“My husband used to be a rice farmer (until sea water flooded his land and others took it over for shrimp farming.) He had to go to the forest to collect honey.

“One afternoon three years ago he found a beehive. He went to climb the tree, but then he was caught by a tiger and killed. He was 30 years old.”

Fahima Begum, a 28-year-old mother of two young children in Bangladesh, tells the story. It’s in a report on climate change impacts released this week by Oxfam International.

She continues: “There are no fish in the river, no jobs in the village. Now we are suffering a lot, especially due to the lack of clean water. (The sea water also ruined that resource.) We collected water from (a pond) more than a kilometre away… My children are suffering from diarrhea. On one hand they starve, and the water makes it worse.

“Maybe I could leave… But I don’t know where I would go, because I haven’t even crossed the river. I don’t know how to go, because I don’t know where to go.”

]]> By: Tristan http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79833 Tristan Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:56:38 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79833 " the phrase “cash grab between states” doesn’t really make sense either because “between” in this instance implies co-operation, sort of opposite to how most people view a “cash grab.” If you have more specific an explanation of what you mean, I’d be interested in reading it." AGW is a huge cash grab between states. Some states develop first, extenalizing huge costs, which they don't pay in cash. Then, AGW becomes noticable, and states that have not developed yet are not allowed to externalize to profit in the same way. In fact, they can exteranlize to profit even less than they could have if the other states hadn't done it first. So, in very simple terms, AGW is a cash grab between states that developed before "we knew better" (bullshit), and those who are developing now. If you think of "cash" only as positive credit, not the lack of enforced debt, then it would be hard to see this - but it would also be a negligantly thin notion of "cash" as the notion might apply to states. ” the phrase “cash grab between states” doesn’t really make sense either because “between” in this instance implies co-operation, sort of opposite to how most people view a “cash grab.” If you have more specific an explanation of what you mean, I’d be interested in reading it.”

AGW is a huge cash grab between states. Some states develop first, extenalizing huge costs, which they don’t pay in cash. Then, AGW becomes noticable, and states that have not developed yet are not allowed to externalize to profit in the same way. In fact, they can exteranlize to profit even less than they could have if the other states hadn’t done it first. So, in very simple terms, AGW is a cash grab between states that developed before “we knew better” (bullshit), and those who are developing now.

If you think of “cash” only as positive credit, not the lack of enforced debt, then it would be hard to see this – but it would also be a negligantly thin notion of “cash” as the notion might apply to states.

]]> By: Matt http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79822 Matt Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:09:21 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79822 <i>All this concern for poor states shows AGW for what it is – a cash grab between states with huge brith rates and others with most of the money.</i> This statement makes little sense. In order for something to be a cash grab, it has to be a policy or a tax, or something like that (but not all policies/taxes are cash grabs). AGW stands for Anthropogenic Global Warming, which is neither a policy or a tax. Rather, it's a concept that the things humans put into the air, CO2 generally but also things like refrigerants, are causing an unnatural increase in average global temperatures with severely negative consequences which are outlined elsewhere on this blog. Furthermore, the phrase "cash grab between states" doesn't really make sense either because "between" in this instance implies co-operation, sort of opposite to how most people view a "cash grab." If you have more specific an explanation of what you mean, I'd be interested in reading it. There's one thing I agree with you about, though: Birth rates are too high. All this concern for poor states shows AGW for what it is – a cash grab between states with huge brith rates and others with most of the money.

This statement makes little sense. In order for something to be a cash grab, it has to be a policy or a tax, or something like that (but not all policies/taxes are cash grabs). AGW stands for Anthropogenic Global Warming, which is neither a policy or a tax. Rather, it’s a concept that the things humans put into the air, CO2 generally but also things like refrigerants, are causing an unnatural increase in average global temperatures with severely negative consequences which are outlined elsewhere on this blog.

Furthermore, the phrase “cash grab between states” doesn’t really make sense either because “between” in this instance implies co-operation, sort of opposite to how most people view a “cash grab.” If you have more specific an explanation of what you mean, I’d be interested in reading it.

There’s one thing I agree with you about, though: Birth rates are too high.

]]> By: Green socialism http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79819 Green socialism Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:57:14 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79819 All this concern for poor states shows AGW for what it is - a cash grab between states with huge brith rates and others with most of the money. All this concern for poor states shows AGW for what it is – a cash grab between states with huge brith rates and others with most of the money.

]]> By: Milan http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79818 Milan Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:11:30 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79818 We had <a href="http://www.sindark.com/2008/03/28/brief-survey-the-value-of-humanity/" rel="nofollow">a little survey before</a>, on the value of humanity. We had a little survey before, on the value of humanity.

]]> By: BuddyRich http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79817 BuddyRich Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:04:56 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79817 Assuming you don't already have, or plan to have kids, and are otherwise a pretty selfish individual to not care about friends and family who do have or plan to have kids, then I would argue that the future beyond that individuals lifespan doesn't matter (to that individual at least). Not to mention its been the mantra for the past 20 to 30 years to "live in the moment", "live life like there is no tomorrow", etc... I am not sure when overriding individualism crept into the mainstream consciousness, but I do think it makes it a harder sell to get people behind climate change today than 70 years ago as when western society mobilized for WWII for example. Nor am I impling that individualism is bad... Assuming you don’t already have, or plan to have kids, and are otherwise a pretty selfish individual to not care about friends and family who do have or plan to have kids, then I would argue that the future beyond that individuals lifespan doesn’t matter (to that individual at least). Not to mention its been the mantra for the past 20 to 30 years to “live in the moment”, “live life like there is no tomorrow”, etc… I am not sure when overriding individualism crept into the mainstream consciousness, but I do think it makes it a harder sell to get people behind climate change today than 70 years ago as when western society mobilized for WWII for example. Nor am I impling that individualism is bad…

]]> By: Milan http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79809 Milan Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:10:51 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79809 So, <a href="http://www.sindark.com/2009/06/26/getting-serious-about-climate-change/#comment-79763" rel="nofollow">what can we do</a>? So, what can we do?

]]> By: Sarah http://www.sindark.com/2009/07/10/who-is-vulnerable-to-climate-change/#comment-79806 Sarah Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:02:12 +0000 http://www.sindark.com/?p=5909#comment-79806 It seems as though a lot of people are gambling everything on the science being wrong about the scale of the temperature changes we're facing and the likely consequences of that. This may relate to the broader point you've made before about people's general inability to understand risk, and the discount rates between present and future. When I'm feeling cynical I suspect that large sections of the population simply believe that their present matters more than their future, and that the future beyond their own lifespan doesn't matter whatsoever. It seems as though a lot of people are gambling everything on the science being wrong about the scale of the temperature changes we’re facing and the likely consequences of that. This may relate to the broader point you’ve made before about people’s general inability to understand risk, and the discount rates between present and future. When I’m feeling cynical I suspect that large sections of the population simply believe that their present matters more than their future, and that the future beyond their own lifespan doesn’t matter whatsoever.

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