<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Would god allow climate change?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/</link>
	<description>dispatches from Canada&#039;s capital</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:15:43 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: R.K.</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84151</link>
		<dc:creator>R.K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84151</guid>
		<description>The Pope is my #1 go-to guy when I need the advice of an abstinent old man who believes that his every word is infallible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pope is my #1 go-to guy when I need the advice of an abstinent old man who believes that his every word is infallible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84150</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84150</guid>
		<description>Catholicism is a problem too, insofar as it helps prevent women from making the kind of reproductive choices they want to.

Hampering the efforts of governments and NGOs that promote family planning is one of the more objectionable things done by any religious organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catholicism is a problem too, insofar as it helps prevent women from making the kind of reproductive choices they want to.</p>
<p>Hampering the efforts of governments and NGOs that promote family planning is one of the more objectionable things done by any religious organization.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tristan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84149</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84149</guid>
		<description>&quot;His remarks emphasized that food should not be treated like any other commodity, especially because “there is no cause and effect relationship between population growth and hunger.” Nobel Prize-winning economic Amartya Sen has long commented that hunger is not a problem of production but one of access.&quot;

This is just a fallacious string of thought. If population growth increases demand for food, which increases the price, which limits access, then population growth can be a cause of starvation even if it is still true to say the problem is with access rather than production.

The real problem, as usual, is capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;His remarks emphasized that food should not be treated like any other commodity, especially because “there is no cause and effect relationship between population growth and hunger.” Nobel Prize-winning economic Amartya Sen has long commented that hunger is not a problem of production but one of access.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is just a fallacious string of thought. If population growth increases demand for food, which increases the price, which limits access, then population growth can be a cause of starvation even if it is still true to say the problem is with access rather than production.</p>
<p>The real problem, as usual, is capitalism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84143</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84143</guid>
		<description>Of course, this is a man who believes that condoms are evil, the world was created by a benevolent god who cares about humanity, and that priests actually turn bread and water into flesh and wine. He may not be the best source of information on scientific matters.

That said, given the number of members in his church, it is likely that his statements have real consequences in how people live their lives and devote their efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, this is a man who believes that condoms are evil, the world was created by a benevolent god who cares about humanity, and that priests actually turn bread and water into flesh and wine. He may not be the best source of information on scientific matters.</p>
<p>That said, given the number of members in his church, it is likely that his statements have real consequences in how people live their lives and devote their efforts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84142</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84142</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think that is a silly and perhaps irresponsible thing for the Pope to say.

If we get 6°C or more of warming by 2100, it is quite legitimate to ask how much starvation it would cause. By providing the unjustified perspective that climate change won&#039;t cause mass starvation, the Pope may well diminish how much action people take on the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think that is a silly and perhaps irresponsible thing for the Pope to say.</p>
<p>If we get 6°C or more of warming by 2100, it is quite legitimate to ask how much starvation it would cause. By providing the unjustified perspective that climate change won&#8217;t cause mass starvation, the Pope may well diminish how much action people take on the issue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-84139</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-84139</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://globalwarming.change.org/blog/view/pope_global_warming_will_not_starve_the_world&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pope: Global Warming Will Not Starve the World&lt;/a&gt;
by Katherine Gustafson 

Monday, on the opening day of the World Summit on Food Security, Pope Benedict XVI tried to put the panic about global-warming-induced food crises to rest.

According to the UK&#039;s Times Online, the Pope said that the Earth can produce enough for everyone despite the ravages climate change might inflict. It is greed, he said, that has driven up prices and increased hunger in the world.

His remarks emphasized that food should not be treated like any other commodity, especially because &quot;there is no cause and effect relationship between population growth and hunger.&quot; Nobel Prize-winning economic Amartya Sen has long commented that hunger is not a problem of production but one of access.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://globalwarming.change.org/blog/view/pope_global_warming_will_not_starve_the_world" rel="nofollow">Pope: Global Warming Will Not Starve the World</a><br />
by Katherine Gustafson </p>
<p>Monday, on the opening day of the World Summit on Food Security, Pope Benedict XVI tried to put the panic about global-warming-induced food crises to rest.</p>
<p>According to the UK&#8217;s Times Online, the Pope said that the Earth can produce enough for everyone despite the ravages climate change might inflict. It is greed, he said, that has driven up prices and increased hunger in the world.</p>
<p>His remarks emphasized that food should not be treated like any other commodity, especially because &#8220;there is no cause and effect relationship between population growth and hunger.&#8221; Nobel Prize-winning economic Amartya Sen has long commented that hunger is not a problem of production but one of access.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-83371</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-83371</guid>
		<description>&quot;Asked how he reconciles that realization with the wonkish content of the book, Gore at first seems stymied. But then, when I prompt him, he points to pages on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsweek.com/id/220552/page/2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;spiritual dimension of climate change, the idea that God gave man stewardship over the earth, and that preserving it for future generations is a sacred obligation&lt;/a&gt;. Then he opens his laptop to show a commercial by his Alliance for Climate Protection, in which the Revs. Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson make an odd-couple plea for &quot;taking care of the planet.&quot; Gore allows that he&#039;s been tailoring the slide-show training he gives to faith-based volunteer groups. &quot;I&#039;ve done a Christian [-based] training program; I have a Muslim training program and a Jewish training program coming up, also a Hindu program coming up. I trained 200 Christian ministers and lay leaders here in Nashville in a version of the slide show that is filled with scriptural references. It&#039;s probably my favorite version, but I don&#039;t use it very often because it can come off as proselytizing.&quot;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Asked how he reconciles that realization with the wonkish content of the book, Gore at first seems stymied. But then, when I prompt him, he points to pages on the <a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/220552/page/2" rel="nofollow">spiritual dimension of climate change, the idea that God gave man stewardship over the earth, and that preserving it for future generations is a sacred obligation</a>. Then he opens his laptop to show a commercial by his Alliance for Climate Protection, in which the Revs. Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson make an odd-couple plea for &#8220;taking care of the planet.&#8221; Gore allows that he&#8217;s been tailoring the slide-show training he gives to faith-based volunteer groups. &#8220;I&#8217;ve done a Christian [-based] training program; I have a Muslim training program and a Jewish training program coming up, also a Hindu program coming up. I trained 200 Christian ministers and lay leaders here in Nashville in a version of the slide show that is filled with scriptural references. It&#8217;s probably my favorite version, but I don&#8217;t use it very often because it can come off as proselytizing.&#8221;"</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: .</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-81089</link>
		<dc:creator>.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-81089</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/gods-verdict-outranks-historys-pm-says/article1269229/&quot; title=&quot;&#8216;God&#039;s verdict&#039; outranks history&#039;s, PM says - The Globe and Mail&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stephen Harper says he&#039;s more concerned about God&#039;s judgment than how history books&lt;/a&gt; rate his term in office, telling a Quebec magazine in a markedly personal interview that preserving relationships with family is far more important than worrying about a political legacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/gods-verdict-outranks-historys-pm-says/article1269229/" title="&lsquo;God's verdict' outranks history's, PM says - The Globe and Mail" rel="nofollow">Stephen Harper says he&#8217;s more concerned about God&#8217;s judgment than how history books</a> rate his term in office, telling a Quebec magazine in a markedly personal interview that preserving relationships with family is far more important than worrying about a political legacy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Antonia</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-80547</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-80547</guid>
		<description>Nodding @Matt, Milan (fruit warning) and Tristan.
&#039;it is certainly not necessary to assume that the super-natural force, which might just mean the force that you don’t understand, cares about you, or likes you.&#039; My longstanding stance. I&#039;ve always thought it odd to assume that a being possessed greater understanding and power than us would share our understanding, or even our concepts, of what is good for us, in the unlikely event that it actively wished to do us good. Abrahamic religions assume this only in that they posit God made man in his image, and wants to elevate man, but God didn&#039;t make man so close an image as to be equal to God. Obviously so much was left out that nobody can rely on any particular aspect of humans (especially not of individual assessments of &#039;benefit&#039;) as giving a reliable guideline.

As for ascribing the hand of careful custodianship to theories of economics etc... even the Gaia theory is now being reinterpreted (by some) as resembling Medea more closely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nodding @Matt, Milan (fruit warning) and Tristan.<br />
&#8216;it is certainly not necessary to assume that the super-natural force, which might just mean the force that you don’t understand, cares about you, or likes you.&#8217; My longstanding stance. I&#8217;ve always thought it odd to assume that a being possessed greater understanding and power than us would share our understanding, or even our concepts, of what is good for us, in the unlikely event that it actively wished to do us good. Abrahamic religions assume this only in that they posit God made man in his image, and wants to elevate man, but God didn&#8217;t make man so close an image as to be equal to God. Obviously so much was left out that nobody can rely on any particular aspect of humans (especially not of individual assessments of &#8216;benefit&#8217;) as giving a reliable guideline.</p>
<p>As for ascribing the hand of careful custodianship to theories of economics etc&#8230; even the Gaia theory is now being reinterpreted (by some) as resembling Medea more closely.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Antonia</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-80546</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-80546</guid>
		<description>I scares the whatsit out of me when those in power say we don&#039;t have to worry about taking responsibility for the conseqences of our actions.

Particularly ironic when it is Republicans, normally all for taking the full consequences of actions at an individual level, effectively saying that the more severe the consequences of the choice, the less one has to worry about assuming responsibility and taking compensatory action.

As pointed out elsewhere here, free will (whether innate or God-granted) carries the duty for intelligent adults to bear the consequences of their actions, as the law usually recognises. Those denying abdicating responsibility for attempting to soften the impact of climate change  on the planet and its populace are implicitly denying  at least one of three assumptions behind this (that they are adult, intelligent, or that they possess free will).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I scares the whatsit out of me when those in power say we don&#8217;t have to worry about taking responsibility for the conseqences of our actions.</p>
<p>Particularly ironic when it is Republicans, normally all for taking the full consequences of actions at an individual level, effectively saying that the more severe the consequences of the choice, the less one has to worry about assuming responsibility and taking compensatory action.</p>
<p>As pointed out elsewhere here, free will (whether innate or God-granted) carries the duty for intelligent adults to bear the consequences of their actions, as the law usually recognises. Those denying abdicating responsibility for attempting to soften the impact of climate change  on the planet and its populace are implicitly denying  at least one of three assumptions behind this (that they are adult, intelligent, or that they possess free will).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-80531</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 05:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-80531</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I guess you could argue that when God said he wanted us to rule – he assumed that we would rule with the desire to have something to rule over, and not destroy it all.&lt;/em&gt;

Such questions are more easily answered when one accepts the likelihood that god(s) is/are fictional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I guess you could argue that when God said he wanted us to rule – he assumed that we would rule with the desire to have something to rule over, and not destroy it all.</em></p>
<p>Such questions are more easily answered when one accepts the likelihood that god(s) is/are fictional.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tristan</title>
		<link>http://www.sindark.com/2009/08/03/would-god-allow-climate-change/#comment-80495</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sindark.com/?p=6101#comment-80495</guid>
		<description>I think a common mistake made is to move from positing some kind of super-natural force, to assuming that force is all-powerful and all-benevolant. It might be impossible not to posit some kind of super-natural force, if super-natural just means &quot;beyond nature&quot; only a culture that perfectly grasped the world as natural (which means, comprehended everything) could expunge the super-natural. But, it is certainly not necessary to assume that the super-natural force, which might just mean the force that you don&#039;t understand, cares about you, or likes you. 

It&#039;s easy to charge religious nutbags with this mistake - but I think you are right to point to those for whom this super-natural is the &quot; ‘laws’ of technology or economics&quot;. The notion that a certain kind of human development is good for humans, that the invisible hand watches over us, is just the same kind of unargued assumption as to posit God&#039;s being as all-powerful and all-good. Sure, we observe this hand, but we never observe it as entirely beneficial (without rose coloured glasses), or as ultimately powerful (there are no free markets anyway). 

So, maybe the neo-cons are just as Abrhamic as the bible-thumpers, they just have a different name for God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a common mistake made is to move from positing some kind of super-natural force, to assuming that force is all-powerful and all-benevolant. It might be impossible not to posit some kind of super-natural force, if super-natural just means &#8220;beyond nature&#8221; only a culture that perfectly grasped the world as natural (which means, comprehended everything) could expunge the super-natural. But, it is certainly not necessary to assume that the super-natural force, which might just mean the force that you don&#8217;t understand, cares about you, or likes you. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to charge religious nutbags with this mistake &#8211; but I think you are right to point to those for whom this super-natural is the &#8221; ‘laws’ of technology or economics&#8221;. The notion that a certain kind of human development is good for humans, that the invisible hand watches over us, is just the same kind of unargued assumption as to posit God&#8217;s being as all-powerful and all-good. Sure, we observe this hand, but we never observe it as entirely beneficial (without rose coloured glasses), or as ultimately powerful (there are no free markets anyway). </p>
<p>So, maybe the neo-cons are just as Abrhamic as the bible-thumpers, they just have a different name for God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
